Hi Jill,

Wanted you to know I enjoy your newsletter. I employ your advice on all my websites and it seems to work very well. Sometimes the difference between following your basic advice and doing nothing is downright astounding. Thanks for all your guidance!

I have a question regarding layers and how search engines deal with them. As you probably know, a layer can be visually placed anywhere on a page without regard to where the code is located in the HTML. So it is possible to put the main text of a page in a layer and push the code for that layer near the top of the HTML, yet visually position the text lower on the page.

Do search engines read the visual positioning of the layer and take that into account? Or do they just read the text in the order that it appears in the HTML and rank it higher if it is near the top of the code? If someone did something so severe as to put a layer way down on a page visually, but put the code for the layer near the top of the HTML, would search engines interpret that as a form of spamming or deception?

Thanks,

Eugene Barnes
Small Business Web Site Services
www.eugenebarnes.com

++Jill's Response++

Hi Eugene,

Glad you enjoy the newsletter!

You can do all sorts of things with layers that will fool the search engines, as they simply aren't sophisticated enough to understand it all -- yet. It's possible (and highly probable) that they will get more sophisticated somewhere down the line and eventually be able to interpret the information provided in the layers.

It doesn't sound like what you're talking about doing would be any big deal to the engines, as everything is still visible to real people viewing the page. That said, for the average Web site, the information in the top of the code isn't necessarily weighted a whole lot more than info closer to the bottom. Personally, I like to make sure that the entire page consists of content that uses relevant keywords, not just the top part of the page. The search engines do find and index the whole page (unless it's really, really huge). Therefore, I'm not sure it's worth going to the trouble to change the positioning of the text through layers. If you've got great content on the page, the search engines will definitely find it, even if there's lots of useless code above it.

The problem with using layers as part of your SEO is that it can be highly abused by those who wish to trick the search engines and their users. I've read about layering tricks that can even position words off the visible page entirely! I'll say it again -- these tricks do work for now. Unfortunately, if the spammy pages start to take over the search results, the engines will be forced to find solutions to stop the madness altogether. We've seen this happen over and over again with a number of SEO techniques, including the poor abused Meta keyword tag. Unfortunately, the abusers make it harder for those working legitimately to get their pages indexed. This is why I would personally avoid any technique that has the potential for abuse, if at all possible. Why tempt fate?

My feeling is that getting found in the search engines is a long-term proposition. When you make a squeaky-clean site using SEO techniques that enhance the quality of your site for both your users and the search engines, you don't have to worry about ever getting penalized or banned. You also don't have to worry about algorithm changes, and that sort of thing; you can simply go about your business as usual.

On a related subject, I recently read an article by Robin Nobles that discussed using a technique called "Z Order" for helping Flash sites to get indexed by positioning text *under* the Flash movie. In other words, the user sees the Flash movie, and the search engine sees the copy. At first glance, this sounds like a great way to get those pesky Flash sites optimized, and it probably is -- for now. Robin even has a quote from Stephen Baker, the Director of Business Development and Marketing at FAST, where he appears to state that this method is okay with FAST as long as the text is relevant.

From my own talks with Baker in the past, it is my understanding that this sort of thing may be okay with FAST *if* your site is among those paying for inclusion, i.e., they can keep their eye on you to be absolutely sure that your hidden content is relevant. Baker told me before that sites that aren't paying for inclusion won't get the same kind of consideration, however. Many of the other search engine reps have stated the same thing.

Keep in mind, however, that Google would definitely consider this particular technique to be spam. Google reps have always gone on record as saying that what the end user (the person doing the search) sees sure as heck better be what the search engine robot sees. If there's a discrepancy between these (and if you get caught), then you risk being penalized or banned. Apparently "intent" doesn't play a part in Google's algorithm!

What you need to figure out with any SEO technique is the amount of risk you are willing to take. If you like to take high risks in hopes of getting high rewards, then feel free to test out these techniques for your own sites. Experimenting with different things is how we learn. But if you plan to use these techniques on a client's site, please be sure that they clearly understand the risks involved. Many clients are happy to take a risk if it's laid out to them honestly and objectively. Others may not wish to put their rankings in jeopardy for any reason at all. The client has the right to know the pros and cons of the techniques you're using; it's the only way they can make an informed decision.

I'm not a risk-taker. Therefore, I'll just keep on following the rules and keeping myself out of trouble!